@cuddlefaery and @Mike403
You have both cleverly avoided the question.
We all know by now about Trolls and previous behaviour and fake accounts
I am asking you directly-
Should someone be banned for the statements and questions toward @Unscented_Lemon about Biological males?
Does that question/statement deserve a ban on it's own merits?
Why is it so hard to answer that directly?
Perhaps it's because it will be very revealing about how you really view Free Speech.
While some of you may see that question/statement as the most hateful speech ever seen-others see it as a reasonable question. Maybe we who hold that view should also be banned?
Yes, unless they give me a reason to think differently. What about you?
Can I just point out how unnerving it is to read someone, seemingly unironically say::
my opinion is all that matters.
Not even worth responding to that guy, I’ll tap out now. Enjoy your pseudo victimhood of being “misgendered.” The horror!!!
Perhaps you should go back to the hospital you were born in and fight the Physician who put male on your Birth certificate. Next time you want a thread of circle jerk echo chambering PM everyone who agrees with you and high five each other in there.
@Sooson Tell her you don't think she's a real woman, or that transgender people should be discriminated against, or any of your other transphobic beliefs. See if you're still her favorite.
When you interact with someone in RL who thinks they are attractive looking, and you don't think so you don't tell them "Listen dude I think you're ugly ", do you? and when you interact with someone who you think is stupid you don't call them "stupid" do you? what am I supposed to say? "Hey how's it going, I'll have my large coffee with cream, oh by the way I don't think you're really a woman"? Here we debate (kind of) and share our views. in RL we interact with people we may disagree with on all sorts of issues for reasons unrelated to any disagreements we may have. and we just get along. I order coffee, she serves the coffee, we chit chat and we move on. here there is more freedom to speak your mind. I got lectured by my manager at work one time for saying "Cleaning Lady" he corrected me with "Cleaning Person" and I'm like "ok, Rachel Maddow, whatever" So I'm not going to start debates over more sensitive issue in RL but if someone does, I let them have it. and they always lose. because facts and common sense are always on my side. I beat them with half my brain tied behind my back, but even here the freedom is limited (and it should be) so I'm being mild.
I am not against any trans rights that do not infringe on the rights of others. Women sports and locket rooms for example. One transgender has no right to any rights that take away the rights of 20 or more women. trans women should not participate in women's sports. its lunacy, its insanity, it's unfair. I am against minority tyranny. and a 10-year-old boy should not undergo a gender transformation treatment just because his mother think that he thinks he's a girl. and believe it or not, there are plenty of trans people who share these thoughts and that don't like the fact that their cause got hijacked by the lunatic fringe.
@Specialist_Log It's a good thing it wasn't serious, then. I was just doing to them what they've been doing to me.
@Unscented_Lemon , we are all adults here. It is highly offensive to be referring to people as "child".
It speaks volumes as to your general demenure.
@Sooson
So the transgender woman who called you her favorite customer knows nothing about your transphobic beliefs. Got it.
and a 10-year-old boy should not undergo a gender transformation treatment just because his mother think that he thinks he's a girl
Where did you come up with the nonsense that transitioning is forced on children by their parents? Or that it's a single "treatment"?
How many people on this thread are going the extra mile to out anti woke each other just as a means of retaliation because they feel incensed at the implication of being considered a possible transphobe when they might otherwise be pretty chill about trans people but are now all up in fight club mode because they don't like the way the topic is presented and discussed ? There are some legit transphobic behavior and thoughts being expressed and it makes me really sad and ashamed for the way that they are treating others. However I believe most people are not, at least not in a text book sense . I find most people to be somewhere in the middle and are able to be pretty reasonable and able to compromise and make concessions, but the adversarial nature on both sides of the coin tend to be a tolerance repellant and in my humble opinion can bring damage to a cause and add more vert to an already uphill climb.
It's a good thing it wasn't serious, then. I was just doing to them what they've been doing to me.
@Unscented_Lemon Do you believe that's the best course of action while advocating for the widespread acceptance of such a new and dynamic movement? That's more or less the showing the same level of maturity and self control as two children fighting, and one saying "But they hit me first!!!" Granted, it may be super effective. I'm not an activist, so I don't know much on the topic of activism strategy.
@pmvines At least one ... Right?
@Specialist_Log
I had hoped they would understand how it looks and feels when it's done to them. Sadly, it completely failed to get through. Because their opinion is that I'm not a woman and their opinion is all that matters.
@Unscented_Lemon Not all people learn that way, and many people are too set in their ways to be willing to learn to begin with. In my own humble opinion, all opinions matter- at least a little. How much they matter to any individual is up to the individual in question. Some people have shown me extreme disrespect and disregard, so their opinion doesn't matter to me. Your opinion likely doesn't matter to many people, as mine may not matter to you. So what? I am confident in my own identity regardless of what people say, because it's just words. I know what's true. Or, to put it in a way that's more acceptable to you, "I live my truth 24/7" it's just that my truth happens to not align with yours. Sorry, not sorry.
I did not come up with that, I'm not twisted enough make it up. but there are people who are ok with that. and I have seen a couple dressing up a 3-year-old boy in a dress because they "feel" that he is a girl. and many other examples of sheer lunacy.
but the adversarial nature on both sides of the coin tend to be a tolerance repellant and in my humble opinion can bring damage to a cause and add more vert to an already uphill climb.
@pmvines the lunatic fringe on the "side" is causing more damage to the causes they "support" than anyone here who disagrees with @Unscented_Lemon
"...the lunatic fringe on the "side" is causing more damage to the causes they "support" than anyone here who disagrees..."
Always has been this way, always will. It only takes one or two bad apples to ruin the whole movement for many people. One or two people saying "I'm part of this movement!" while behaving like a ((I chose not to put a word into this message, to hopefully avoid a time out 🙃)).
@Specialist_Log You're right, denying people their identity is in no way harmful to them. https://www.suicideinfo.ca/local_resource/trans-fact-sheet/
@Unscented_Lemon
why would she know? why should she know? it never came up in a conversation. why does it matter?
@Sooson Why did they feel that he is a girl? Did they have a dream? Did she talk about being a girl? You're not exactly a reliable source.
And good to know that all you need is a single example to say that everyone does it.
It's been mentioned a few times already but I'm still not seeing how 'phobe' got redefined into something that wasn't fear or hatred? Where is that official definition or is it just made up? I mean if you think it's ignorant fine, but how is it being hateful or fearful?
I'm having trouble processing this level of clueless. You really don't think it would change anything if she knew you oppose her identity and her rights? But it's okay because you never say it in front of her?
denying people their identity is in no way harmful to them.
You're twisting my words. But to your point, if the identity is so weak it pushes a person to self harm because it was challenged, perhaps the person needs immediate therapy to assist them in coming to mental health stability. Further, I would like to point out, if a person can't deal with being challenged, they will likely not do much in life.
@sby1934 I think this comment says it well. https://www.cuddlecomfort.com/forum/discussion/comment/290313/#Comment_290313
@Sooson Both sides are damaging , and that really saddens me because this is a cause that hits home with me and is very important to me , as one can read for themselves in a post I made earlier about my family. It is both sides in my experience that caused damage . Your remark is based off this one thread. I'm talking about the movement as a whole , which I see and experience from all sides and points of view. But I also don't view the cause through the lenses of a tran person, so it's easier for me to be diplomatic and not experience opposition first hand so even though I don't necessarily agree with how some of these ideas are presented, I do understand that it's not my reality. I have loved ones who live it, so I try to be a good ally and be supportive as I can be. And my son is a rainbow baby and his partner is trans, and I know I'll stamp out anything that gets in the way of his happiness. So i take it upon myself to make his cause mine as well.
I have absolutely no fear or aversion to trans people. Our being able to work together is not hinged on you agreeing with me or me agreeing with you. My respect towards you will be no less and no more than your respect towards me. You don't have to stand before me on judgement day. Neither do I fear what affect your agenda has on this nation. I know who the god of this world is and his time is short (II Cor 4:3-4). But when I see bullying and blasphemy, from convincing a child to mutilate their body outside of their parents presence to parading a float of God sodomizing Uncle Sam while a boy scout watches, you're not going to see me sitting on the sidelines. I fear God not you. And I wouldn't be showing the love of Christ if I didn't warn you of the one to whom you are to deal with before facing eternity. Jesus Christ died for your sins as much as he did for mine. I'm no better than you. But he rose again to grant us his own righteousness, the very righteousness of God. He did this because he loves you.
@Unscented_Lemon Do you tell the cashier at the grocery store or the clerk at the post office or anyone you interact with through the day who you sleep with, who you vote for, what you think about climate change, abortions and gun control?
And again, you show how your side debates: labeling, name calling and the best of all. the trademark: you ask me a question, answer the question for me and then respond to the answer you provided on my behalf.
I didn't say challenged. I said denied.
Do you know what it's like to be forced to live as someone you're not? To act in ways against your true nature? To have to follow complex sets of societal rules that you are not suited for? To look in the mirror and the face you see isn't yours? Have you ever experienced dysphoria from any of that?
But any attempt to be your true self is met with hostility, anger, violence, and discrimination. You're constantly told you're someone other than who you really are. And you have to put up with it because you could get kicked out of your house if you're a kid. You could lose your job if you're an adult. You can get murdered for having the wrong genitalia.
Look how angry kense got at being called a child. By your logic, he should have just shrugged it off. And that he didn't means he needs immediately therapy.
Again, having your identity denied is more than just a "challenge".
You can get murdered for having the wrong genitalia
And you can get murdered for simply existing in the wrong place at the wrong time.
More to your point, many things are denied to us for our own good. For example, railings on the edges of buildings so we don't jump off. Stop signs at intersections so we don't crash.
For literally THOUSANDS of years the status quo of male and female has worked. Why only recently, within the past decade or so, are people so insistent on being something they quite literally aren't? Genuine question.
Frankly, I don't care, just stop twisting my words to make it seem like I'm saying something I'm not. Not only is that dishonest but it is also infuriating to me. My words are not a danger to you. My beliefs are not a danger to you. If you disagree with my beliefs, my response is as follows: "Oh no! Anyway."
@TightCuddler4 That's fair. When I see self-righteous christians trying to force their beliefs on other people and using their bible as a weapon, I know there will be no peace if I don't fight their agenda. I do fear them, because they have political power and are trying to outlaw my existence. One thing I don't fear is your god. If he exists and is a loving god as christians claim, he'll have a lot more sympathy for me than for people who spread hate in his name.
But we can agree to disagree on your god, right?
@Sooson As usual, you're deliberately missing the point. So there's a trans woman who's a cashier who likes you as a customer. What does that prove? You've obviously never had a real conversation with her. But somehow her liking you as a customer magically makes you not transphobic? Which is why I asked how she would feel if she knew your transphobic beliefs. A question which you are desperately avoiding answering by introducing other irrelevancies.
Given the nature and state of this 'discussion' I think it's a good time to note the forum rules: https://www.cuddlecomfort.com/forum/discussion/2999/forum-rules-your-moderators and ping a mod, just to be on the safe side. But which one to choose? Hmm
@cudbud64 is the most recently online. Help this mess of a thread please 🥴